BRS Working President and MLA from Telangana K. T. Rama Rao in an exclusive interview with Tamal Saha of News The Truth slammed the BJP and Congress, speaking about the current political dynamics in the State. In this uncensored interview KTR talks about Vision Telangana and KCR 3.0, and touched on topics like Rahul Gandhi, Narendra Modi, unity in diversity and taking a regional party such as the BRS to the national level.

Tamal (T) - I know you started your day around 9 in the morning, is this for the elections or is it nervousness ahead of elections?

K.T. Rama Rao (K) - Every election is like this. I mean you have to understand that there are so many moving pieces at the time of the elections, so, you would want to understand the messaging right, what we were planning till now, you were a part of it, saw it from the sidelines. Basically, what is to be done, how it is to be conveyed, the strategies, most importantly, the messaging. Ultimately, I think that one thing that is a big problem in this world is communication. I mean, you think what’s perception vs reality, alignment of expectations, what needs to be conveyed, what you have done to communicate it well enough. That is the biggest challenge. With the clarity of thought, the clarity of expression also matters.

T - So you are saying you are a good student, having studied the entire year, you still have to invest the equal amount of effort ahead of the exams?

K - Yes, even if you have studied well, if you are not able to write well, express yourself with clarity, what results would that bear? Effectively, the evaluators will look at how you present it.

T - Starting with the Cricket World Cup, have you watched it?

K - I haven't watched it, not a single match, I was busy with the elections you see. I was hoping India would win. I was off course following the tournament.

T - Any message for the team?

K- They have done exceedingly well, they have far surpassed everybody's expectations because they continued to win, and they had one bad day and these things happen. They have made us really proud. I am a huge Virat Kohli fan, I am a huge fan of Surya Kumar Yadav, of Rohit, a huge fan of Bumrah, I have Siraj, my own city boy. Sami off course did really well. All in all, I think it was a fabulous World Cup, except they had one bad day.

T- I find it very interesting the way you switch between languages, English, Telegu, Hindi, with such ease. Is your Hindi that good, has it always been this way?

K- There are many people in Hyderabad who speak great Hindi, are quite affluent in the language to put it that way.

T - I know you wouldn't believe it, I’m sure you would laugh, but, I did not even understanding meaning of the word 'panauti' till the Cricket World Cup happened. And now panauti has literally taken over the whole post World Cup fever. Who come to your mind when you hear the word 'panauti'?

K- I am not a negative person. I do not call my opponents, or charging them. I can talk about their performance or the lack of it, I don't indulge in name calling. When Rahul Gandhi came here and said that we indulged in a scam amounting to 1 lakh crore in a project that was valued at 80 thousand lakhs, yes, that's when I did call him 'Pappu', there's something wrong with that man's mental balance. Now if the project is valued at 80 thousand lakhs, how could it possibly have resulted in a scam amounting to 1 lakh crore? Other than such ridiculous allegations, I do not indulge in name calling. But, if somebody comes up with such kind of outrageous nonsense like that, I get irritated, but other than that I don’t indulge in name calling per say. Panauti or whatever it is, I don't get into it.

T- You think it reduces the level of political discourse?

K- Not really, the thing is not about political discourse, but it’s more about getting to a stage where you attribute something to somebody, possibly something that is unconnected, it’s kind of silly. I understand what Rahul was trying to do, but, I don’t really get it. For an instance, like I said I am a huge Virat Kohli fan, and Anushka got trolled when he was not doing very well. I said what nonsense? It is absolutely disgraceful. I mean why would you troll the lady for whatever little lapse of the concentration of the man? I mean this happens, you hit a rough patch once in a while and that is life. Similarly, politics should be about serious issues, politics should be about the public. Had Rahul spoken about other things, like the lack of sporting infrastructure or the lack of something else, I would probably appreciated it more. However, this is downright silly.

T- You think it is because of politicians, para-dropping in a state that operates on very strong regional sentiments, that in a way disables them from getting into the core of the issues? They could be very much dependent on the local unit and the local unit perhaps has not given them a very strong feedback.

K- I am being blunt, I think when people go to a new state that is not their home, they don't do enough homework, which kind of makes them disconnected or not in-sync with the ground realities. When you have people like Rahul Gandhi and Modi come in here and saying things like this has not been done or that has not been done, they look very off because a lot has happened. I think it is important to be prepared. I think it is important to be prepared.

T- So, Rahul Gandhi was not prepared?

K- Rahul Gandhi is never prepared, when was he even prepared? I mean come on, what would you call a guy who would just go and give Modi a hug in the Parliament? These are all very whimsical, casual, knee-jerk kind of politics that I do not subscribe to.

T- And he has not changed over the years?

K - I have not been following that much, I don't give him that level of importance. Well, he is just an opponent, I don’t need to follow him necessarily. When he says something about us, I look at him. Otherwise, I don’t take him very seriously.

T- So, you don't keep an eye on your enemies?

K- I don't think in politics you have enemies.

T- So, BJP is not a challenge to you?

K- You see, I look at issues. For example, when BJP talked about uniform civil code, which agitated me. When they talked about citizenship amendment act it was not okay, I don't like this kind of exclusive politics.

T- But, you supported demonetization.

K-Yeah, demonetization is not exclusive, it hurt everybody. In hindsight, it was a huge mistake. I regret it supporting it, everybody who supported it has regretted it. I will give you a little background. When our honorable chief minister called the Prime Minister and asked him what he wanted to do, he said that he wanted complete revolution. In terms of making sure that black money is taken out of the system, and somehow we ended up buying in. But in hindsight, when you look back, you are like okay that was silly. So yeah, we all make mistakes.

T- And that is the reason from 2016 when you supported demonetization, till 2023 March when the realization happened, there were posters of 'De-Modi-tization'. I want to ask you if that was your idea or not.

K - The realization happened much before. I commented on demonization about a year and a half into demonization. I have said this is stupid, should not have happened, destroyed economies, it made people stand in lines for their own money and it was ludicrous. So, the realization dawned on us faster than you would have liked it to happen. Coming to the posters, there are plenty of such ideas, there are a lot of creative people in Telangana. I will not take credit for something that is related to me. There are plenty of my party workers who think that this country would do well without Modi, so, why not.

T- How? BJP says that there is no alternative to Modi. If not Modi, then who?

K- There were Congress people who were saying India is Indira, Indira is India, nobody is indispensable, trust me.

T- Prime Minister Modi is not indispensable?

K- Nobody is. I am not going to fixate on Rahul or Modi or anybody. Some people think that they are not replaceable, that is very wrong. We have very short shelf lives and nothing stops for anybody. When Indira Gandhi died, many people questioned India's future. But what happened? Nothing stopped, the country progressed as it would. I'll tell you something, you may not like it, but I will still tell you. India will function anyway, even without a government. No Prime Minister, no Chief Minister, and no Ministers, even then, India will function. It's not like 'Hindustan' will stop. Out 'Bharat' is a very strong and powerful country, and I think it's the people of India that make it great. It's not the politicians, the bureaucrats or the government. India is growing despite government if you ask me.

T- I like the motion, 'Hindustan', 'Bharat' and India. You cared to mention all three, because the name had also been in the news. Suddenly, the troll army came up with the idea of 'Bharat' vs India.

K- See, in my mind, every individual, every entity has multiple identities. There are so many identities, regional, sub-regional and so many others, and India has a similar sort of imagery in my mind. If you ask me, 'sare jahan se acche, Hindustan hamara' is a great song, and then there are a number of songs on Bharat and there are a number of songs on India, so, which one would you pick? I think I have favorites in each of them, so, why would I not enjoy all. I have a daughter and I call her using various names, at the end of the day, what matters is how you love your country and how you look up to it. That's the kind of diversity that makes us beautiful.

T- Talking about diversity, I come from the east and you are from the south, do you think this division of the country like south India, you go to the east and then you have the north-east. Do you think such ideas have led India to be divided for way to long, and I don't know who to blame for this.

K- It may sound clichéd but India's beauty lies in its diversity. The fact is we are a very very unique country on the planet. We are probably the most diverse and the most interesting country on this planet. We have 22 official languages, 300 unofficial languages, 28 different states, there are some languages that don't even have a script and even within the same language, there are multiple dialects, that's what makes us beautiful. It's a potpourri, a melting pot of culture, cuisines, people and that's what makes us beautiful.

T- So, Madhya Pradesh alone cannot only be the 'desh ka dil' (heart of the country). Telangana equally is, Bengal equally is.

K-There are 28 different Indias if you ask me. 1 India, and 28 versions of India in it, in fact, there are many more versions of it. So the fact is, India has this number of identities. Somebody might say south India, somebody might say east India, and somebody might say North East. I think it's a matter of perspective, you don't have to take it so seriously. End of the day, some things bind us together, the beliefs that really bring us together, and Bharat, India and Hindustan is an emotion that works.

T- So, do you think two national parties have been equally responsible for not being able to bridge the idea of India where all the states are connected? Because, to this date, the larger narrative is that in order to be a Prime Minister you must be elected from the Hindi heartland, do you agree?

K- Ultimately, democracy is such a thing, where the majoritarian view is the one that matters. We are a country where, a place called Uttar Pradesh that has 80 parliamentary seats, decides the fate of the Prime Minister. At the end of the day, one state literally calls the shots at the end of the day, and that's the fact. Is this system better or the system you have in the US where irrespective of size has a number of senators, there is an upper house, a lower house. We are a parliamentary democracy, they are a presidential democracy. And as per the constitution, for us, seats were decided on the basis of a state's population, there have been exceptions in some cases. But, there are upsides and downsides to this. The upsides are like an unbroken India even after 75 years of our independence. I think India is look as an important democracy, and that works.

T- When you evoke the regional sentiment, you are trying to state that this sentiment needs to be understood or there could be regional subjugation?

K- I mean to say that there needs to be a sense of regional pride or sentiment. Even in the Hindu religion, you have so many castes, sub-castes, so, identities have multiple layers, like the Hindus and the Muslims and the others. So, identities, sub-identities and sub sub identities, if you go down that route, you need to focus on what binds us together. There are some beautiful things, the feeling of being an Indian, the pride of being an Indian, which is what binds us. Then there are things that divide us, so, the choices are ours. Should we focus on what binds us or what divides us that is a choice we have to make.

T - I must say, there are a lot of similarities between Bengal election 2021 and the Telangana elections, irrespective of the results. There was a superb song that clicked with the masses, today I heard so many songs, like 'Dekh Lenge', it has a punch. Again, your creative or somebody else's creative?

K- Yes, Bengal's Khela Hobe, and as for Dekh Lenge, it’s my team.

T- 'Dekh Lenge' (we'll see what you can do) as in, who do you want to see?

K- 'Dekh Lenge' is a combat cry that is saying that whoever is coming from Delhi or Gujrat, come to the battle field, we'll see what you can do. It is like a war cry.

T- That leads me to my next question, you know Mamata Banerjee had also said that people from Gujrat or Delhi cannot rule us, you are also saying the same thing. So, on one hand, India is united, everyone is for everyone, on the other hand, you have this...

K- Yes, my point is who should on who should run the state. Meaning, should the people of Telangana decide who their Chief Minister should be or should it be Rahul Gandhi and Modi? That is the question we are asking because these parties follow a top down approach and we have seen that for 75 years, and the kind of modus operandi that they have. They have derogatory terms such as the party high command, what the hell is the high command? Ultimately, it’s very derogatory and kind of condescending to say that there is someone at the top who does not care about what the masses think about, will do whatever they like and then at whim, mandate a Chief Minister for the state. First you decide, should it be a popular leader elected by the people of Telangana or should it be somebody who is sent in a sealed cover from Delhi. That is the question that we are asking.

T- Do you approve of the way BJP goes with the polling? They have Prime Minister Modi as the face of every election, the only exception had been UP. Do you subscribe to the formula that Prime Minister Modi should be the face of every election?

K- It is good and bad. It’s good because you are projecting a leader and saying that the buck stops there, it's good in that way. But its bad because if you think for a minute, there is excessive dependence and centralization of authority that kind of puts a spanner in the works, leaves behind a lot of ambiguity about who is going to be responsible at a local level.

T- So, you are saying that with Karnataka loss, the buck should stop with Prime Minister Modi?

K- I think in Karnataka, the BJP had thrown it away three years prior to the election. In India, my analysis of elections is that people 95% of the times reject parties, they don't elect parties. So, it's not as much about selection, it's more about the rejection.

T- Don't you have that rejection fear? You also have a nine and a half years under your wing.

K- There is anti-incumbency, I would be foolish to say that there is none. The fact is in a democracy what matters is 51% of the vote. So, I am confident that 51% I will get and pull through whatever fatigue is there about us.

T- How much of a support do you think Asaduddin Owaisi of AIMIM? He is contesting in 9 or 10 seats. Is he your alliance? He says he supports the BRS.

K- He is not an alliance. He does not want to, even we do not want to. He is fighting, we are fighting. He supports us wherever he is not contesting, because he feels that the Congress and BJP are not as good as us. And the other thing is just so that you understand that there is no ambiguity here, he has supported us since 2014, and he never joined us. He has supported us in some issues, there are issues where he has also disagreed and votes against, and it is issue based. Yes, we have been friendly, but not been partners.

T- You don't think that his identity in any way is a liability for your party, when the debate happens on the secular idea?

K- You see, everything is a package. There is good and there is bad. BJP would like to exploit it saying that 'hamara steering Asad ke haathon mein hai' (Asad control us), but, we can back by saying 'BJP ki steering Adani ke haathon mein hai' (Adani controls BJP). The point is, everything is a package. So, there is some good, some bad, you just have to take it in that way.

T- The package also come with a lot of question marks, because, for very long, at least after the UP election, Asaduddin Owaisi and the AIMIM have been called the 'B' team of BJP because there is election commission data on it. The opposition has said so that had Asad not contested in the elections, the anti-incumbency or the Muslim votes perhaps would have gone to the second runner up.

K- You are talking about vote cutting and all of that. See, if you fail to win an election, you cannot blame it on others. It's the innate, inherent weakness of Congress and other parties that have lost, primarily if they believe that if they are entitled to Asad's votes, first of all, they should get out of that mindset. In this country, in a multi-party system, every party is entitled to contest and appeal to voters. So, if they believe that Asad has cut into their votes, they should rethink and introspect as to why they have not been able to cut into the votes of that particular party. My point is, that is country does not belong to anyone. So, if anyone feels that if that is their vote bank and no one should interfere, then that is their foolishness. So, tomorrow if I go and contest in Maharashtra, they will also call me the B team of BJP. They do it to hide their own weaknesses. It is Congress's foolishness to think that anybody who is contesting against them by cutting into their vote bank so therefore they are against the secular ideology, that's stupidity. Because who knows Congress might be gone. In fact, in 1948, Mahatma Gandhi had said that the Congress should be disbanded. They have outlived their purpose if you ask me. They are the biggest white elephant in this country. Congress is the root of all evil in this country, let me be very blunt because the people of India gave them the longest opportunity and they screwed up bad. They have not delivered and are the root of all evil in this country. 75 years post-independence, there are places where there is no electricity, no water, no roads, who do you blame? The bucks should stop with the people who have ruled this country for the longest time. The BJP should also be given proportionate blame because even they have been given 15-16 years. Only when Draupadi Murmu became the president of the country, only then did her village get electricity. So, you say that someone from your village will have to become a president for your village to get electricity in this country?

T- You seem to be more cross with the Congress.

K- No, it's both BJP and Congress. BJP in Telangana is non-existent. If you talk to Mamata Banerjee, she will be more cross with the BJP because they are in the opposition in her state, and Congress is non-existent. She does not have to worry much about the Congress so, she joined the INDIA alliance. Here, my principal opponent is Congress, so, you will see me go more against Congress and less against the BJP because they are a lesser threat here.

T- So, the Prime Minister coming, JP Nadda coming, Amit Shah coming, all cumulatively coming, does it have an impact?

K- No, it does not have an impact.

T- Talking about the INDIA alliance, now that you have raked the issue.

K- Is there an alliance?

T- You are saying that there isn't an alliance?

K- Where is the alliance? You show me in the 5 states that have gone to polls. Akhilesh apparently openly come out and said 'Congress is a chalu party isko harao' (Congress is a clever party, defeat them), there is no vote sharing, no seat sharing, where is the alliance? Even before it could take any form or shape, looks like it is a broken deal. It is over even before the wedding took place. Congress is such an arrogant party, I don't think they will be able to strike an alliance. They think everybody should be a subordinate or a surrogate to them.

T- I remember that a couple of other Opposition parties had said that we do not want the Congress to play the 'big brother' or the 'big boss' role.

K- That's exactly what I am saying, they will do, and that is Congress. We have dealt with them in the past.

T- Do you think they have become more confident after Karnataka?

K- See, it's their headache, I don't want to think about what Congress thinks about themselves in their heads, but, I think they are a pack of entitled people who think that there is no substitute to them.

T- Can there be a substitute without Congress?

K- Absolutely.

T- How?

K- See, the things that seem improbable or impossible do happen. You remember 2004, when Vajpai ji could apparently not be dislodged, even in the wildest of dreams nobody thought that NDA could be dislodged. We bet on Congress them, joined an alliance with them back then. Pranab da had called our CM, a party worker back then that you form an alliance with us. How many seats in Andra will we get? When our leader told him that we will win 35-36 out of the 42 seats, Pranab da almost fell off his chair. Pranab da said that Chandrashekhar if you can bring 35-36 seats, you come here and in 2 or 3 months I will send you home with Telangana.

T- Did that happen?

K- No, that did not. That's why I say that they treat everyone the way that they do.

T- Do you think they betrayed you?

K- Off course they have. Thousands and thousands of people have lives because of the betrayal of Congress.

T- Congress says that when KCR was allowed to go ahead and have Telangana, the idea was...

K- Let me stop you there, they did not give it to us, we fought for it from 1952 to 2014. Congress has the blood of Telangana youth on their hands. People of Telangana have snatched Telangana from the jaws of the huge blue whale called Congress.

T- So, from TRS to BRS that's the national ambition. Is the national ambition also revolving around the idea that KCR can also become the Prime Minister?

K- I'll tell you what, if Modi, who is a three time CM of Gujrat can do it by hoodwinking the people, we have actually worked here. We are the first state in the country to have done many things. The point is everyone is an equal in this country and if tomorrow I want to become something, nobody should have a problem. If I want to do something for the welfare of the country, what is the problem? At least we will not be wasting time on baseless issues such as halal or hijab.

T- So, who is responsible for this?

K- The country is. They elect people who keep the center state by making an issue out of non-issues. To some extent, it is our fault as well because in spite of being in the Opposition, we could not counter those in power.

T- I remember that Chief Minister KCR had gone and met leaders like Mamata Banerjee, Nitish Kumar to form an alternative.

K- He tried, he tried very hard to form an alternative to the BJP and Congress. Unfortunately, the regional compulsion of each and every political party have created a scenario which became very very hard for us to create an alternative that was not BJP or Congress.

T- So, when you go to another state and you are termed as an outsider there, how will you respond?

K- Well, I think you will have to ensure that you find capable leaders who are local and powerful. If Modi can go from Gujrat to Varanasi and win and have a national appeal, who knows after 3 time chief minister-ship, KCR can do the same for himself.

T- You said you do not support Congress or the BJP. But, your father, KCR on two occasions had said that PM Modi is a good friend of mine, we share a good relationship.

K- What is wrong in that? Being friends, as in being on talking terms is purely courtesy. In politics, you do not have any enemies. One is a Chief Minister, the other man is a Prime Minister, and we have to exchange some pleasantries.

T- So, you are saying that you are maintaining an equidistance from both Congress and the BJP.

K- Yes, they are the two parties that have destroyed India single handedly.

T- If in today's climate, you ask questions, they will call you an anti-national.

K- They already call me an anti-national. If I stand against both Congress and BJP, they will call me an anti-national as well as BJP B team perhaps.

T- So, when you win...

K- When we win, we will go to Maharashtra and continue to expand our presence in India and continue to see where it goes from there.

T- Mamata Banerjee calls BJP washing machine and she referred to the fact that whoever goes to BJP are absolved of their wrongdoings.

K- Our leader said the same, he calls the BJP, 'Washing Powder Nirma'.

T- So, now if you win are you scared that the ED might come knocking at your door?

K- ED has already made a visit. That's the drill. Whoever is there in BJP today are apparently very honest and the others are very corrupt so, they should be put inside. Adani is the lone exception, he will not be touched.

T- Does any pressure come upon you? Modi has said that you wanted an alliance.

K- Why would we want an alliance? Who is even there in the NDA except BJP, CBI, ED, IT and a few other central agencies? Why would we want to join a sinking ship?

T- In case the numbers falter at the time of the results, will you strike an alliance with BJP or Congress?

K- We will sit in the Opposition, we are not that desperate.

T- One last question, I have one observation about the Telangana elections, dismal representation of women.

K- Yes, we are all to be blamed. We repeated all of our sitting MLAs with a few exceptions, unfortunately, most of them are men. Yes the representation of women is very low.

T- Your OBC representation is also low, only 20%.

K- If you look at it, we have done more justice to OBCs than any other party and as much justice to women as any other party. So, you can't blame me for doing enough when others have also not done it.